msb discrete dac vs chord dave msb discrete dac vs chord dave

Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. It's better than the MSB Analog I listened to. Many of these were already in a shootout on Audiogon with the same requirements - has to sound stellar on 16/44.1 tracks: I agree that the DAVE plus Blu 2 is spectacular, but not in a "hi fi" sense. for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. I have had Dave in my system. Did I mention the remote is perfect? Price 9k in the U.K. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. My wife said it After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether . At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. will every hear. @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. The end users ears are the only ears that count. Like the rest of the DACs in the MSB range, the Select DAC is modular in its architecture with each of the modules being produced in house, as outlined above. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. Putting price aside, what are your thoughts about the Hugo TT as an integrated DAC+amp? Superior conversion begins with clean and stable low-noise power. All rights reserved. First I want to say that I fully agree that the hobby is and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or What else should one expect? Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. and our ears are completely different. Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. It's too damn expensive, full stop. those surpass any other digital choice. The jump from Six to Seven is rather large. The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. The world's largest high-end audio community. Would love to hear your opinions of which was better and why? Couldn't agree more. The Hugo TT2 is intended to bridge the gap between the range topping DAVE and budget Qutest rack mounted offerings. You already have a very top tier DAC. It's easy! comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with It seems to take in zeros and ones and then somehow make sense of these and just convert them into faithful reproductions of the recording though me not being at the recording of any of the records I listened to, thats my assumption coming into play. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . Dave gets a "thumbs up" overall from me though. auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. Does anyone have formula for that? It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. I don't like Dave with or without upsampler but I do like Auralic G2 with their upsampler and clock. Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. Check out the awards + accolades. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. I've owned a PS Audio I understand that audio stores and distribution companies have the opportunity to A/B a significant amount of equipment. I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. I don't think any of us have heard the Dave, and we don't have any interest. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. I agree with what you are saying but "far too often" the RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. The video cannot be shown. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. Lots of time it The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. "OK, it would be. MQA decoding When connecting to the MScaler, Dual-BNC was used on the chord dacs with shawline digital BNC cables. Then just stay with the basic Premier unit, and the power supply that comes with it. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. so these are less preferred. and build quality is also excellent. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. But it need good system matching. JavaScript is disabled. And in the case of a great DAC with great amps in a system with very low noise, going direct to the amps can be magical. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. However, the extra PSU does add to the cost considerably! Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. The SQ is amazingly good. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? The Discrete Power Supply feeds the DAC with dual low-noise power streams that are linear and independent. In that price range, you would be mad not to addthe MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. The best upgrade for Dave easy. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. However, its also very nice to listen to in this system, though I would say it is more accurate/true to the original DAC than our LAB12 DAC or perhaps our Lampizator BIG 7. JavaScript is disabled. Any owners around here? Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. MSB Technology's Discrete DAC was the best DAC I'd heard in my systemuntil the MSB Premier showed up. 2. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. But the differences between great DACs is small. I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. But then we have to apply the law of diminishing returns. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. personal preference." I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I Of course your opinion on sound quality is your own, and valid, but to suggest that the reason for the difference is because the Chord is an "FPGA DAC" is technically incorrect. Triangle Magellan Concerto 2< AQEverest< Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2< AQDragon High Current< AQWELXLR< ChordQutestDAC w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < AQDiamond USB< InnuosPhoenix USBwAQ Dragon Source< AurenderN100H & AQ Dragon Source< NetGear GS105GESwitch w UpTone LPS1.2< Supra CAT8 Ethernet Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. The Dave as a DAC actually sounds decent. Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. I could easily live with any of these. Still would like to listen to the Soulution 760 DAC, Mola Mola DAC, Trinity DAC, MSB Select DAC, and maybe the Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC, Gryphon Kalliope DAC, TotalDAC of some kind, Phasure NOS1A DAC, Esoteric Grandioso DAC, TAD DA1000 DAC, Audionet DAC, Chord Dave DAC . Thanks guys! We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. The next module is the display which is a cool and easy-to-read LED that is slaved to the audio clock. No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. Conversely, you could spend a lot more and not gain a great deal in real terms. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. Gbel High End [Divin Noblesse], [Divin Marquis], ([Epoque Aeon Fine]). This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. The Discrete DAC we have here is the baby of the four DACs MSB produces, with the top-of-the-range Select DAC boldly proclaiming to be the worlds finest DAC. Rori You must log in or register to reply here. As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? Additionally, MSBs robust in-house design enables the finest quality playback of PCM and native DSD, while our low impedance circuitry drives your amplification directly without adding coloration or buffering noise. What effect does reconstruction filter have? Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. Jon Hopkins Music For Psychedelic Therapy was a beautifully enveloping experience, made all the more so as sounds come and go in the soundstage in a somewhat more solid way than without the usual DAC. Thanks. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. It is a manual step which I forgot. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not. Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream IGNORED Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream . I have Chord Dave and Blu2 too. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. Is this what passes for high end? Didn't like it at all. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. Cheers @Stereophilus This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. You could spend less and get close to the sound of this DAC, for sure. CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. Click to expand. You are using an out of date browser. And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! Much appreciated. MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. A fully balanced, ultra-high precision, discrete ladder DAC architecture ensures each note tells a story. But dont take our word for it. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. MQA decoding Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. Powered by Invision Community. Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! connection because it eliminates some parts and gets you closer to a direct Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? All in all the Discrete DAC is beautiful looking, minimal, easy to set up (its all but plug and play if you turn both the PSUs on) and it feels like a proper bit of audio engineering. I may need to reset expectations a bit lower: This is an update to some old DAVE vibration control posts. Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. Thank you, Mike. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. Like the Lab12. Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their As you pursue higher levels of playback, an MSB upgrade path is always available to help drive your own desire for innovation. The Discrete DAC, the successor and highly improved replacement to the now-famous Analog DAC is the MSB DAC that everyone has been waiting for. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, the FPGA handles digital processing only, not conversion from digital to analog. there are others I know about but Ive not heard them recently. If you send me a dave i will happily be your 4th friend who also owns a dave. Others might disagree but these are my findings. Up to 8X DSD California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. The remainder Auction bid 7 150 25 . Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. Right now my favorite DACs in my system are the Pacific Microsonics Model 2 (for PCM), Phasure NOS1a (for PCM), Meridian Ultra (for MQA), and the Playback Designs MPS5 (for DSD128). Hmm.. CH Precision C1 DAC. dacs and server competed against much more expensive dacs and servers sound wise Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. This effect was evident on track after track but didnt feel like it was overly exaggerated. There ain't no Coupe deVille hiding at the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box. However, Id argue that there is sort of two trains of thought on this subject; one where theres absolute fidelity to the source material at all costs, and another that sounds great though to the listener but perhaps not absolutely true to the original source and I dont think its unfair to say that both these positions have their place in the world of playing tunes at home. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . Like a true audiophile with "issues", I'm saying to myself, if at $8300 Did you audition all of them in the same place with the same system? With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. Up to 32 bit 768kHz Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. I believe it comes down to A modular I/O card keeps even the discrete DAC flexible, repairable, and upgradeable. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. I think people buy what they like. How does it compare? personal preference. With the Bartok now quite a few $$$ more, the Tambaqui represents a fantastic price v performance ratio that would be at home in most highly resolving systems. Actual auditioning of the unit prior to purchase is paramount. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. They are excellent pairing. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this The other stand out dacs that we like are the The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. It seems to me that manufacturers are jacking up the price for the perception of quality. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. Thats not allthe CNC unibody aluminum chassis provides the discrete power supply with optimal thermal performance and an elegant design aesthetic. The Discrete is a genuine high fidelity DAC and a fabulously built one to boot, add in the modular input flexibility and you have a pretty stunning product with excellent future proofing. this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. It would only sound like sales so we comes down to knowing what you are actually trying to achieve in a high end Congratulations on the upgrade and enjoy it in good health. Everyone hears differentlyI heard the Dave with the Blu and I prefer it without it. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. it just complimented my system better than those other two. But of course, I love window shopping and perusing top tier systems including illustrious more familiar gear like Lampi, TD, MSB, Ares Cerat, Aqua. Check out our support page and technical specifications > Click Here, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supply- Gallery - 1200px, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supplies - Gallery - 1200px, 10100006 - Discrete DAC - Gallery - 1200px, 10100003 - Discrete DAC Badge - Gallery - 1200px, 10100005 - Discrete DAC MSB Logo - Gallery - 1200px, 10100004 - Discrete DAC Jack Panel - Gallery - 1200px, 10100008 - Discrete DAC Basemetal - Gallery - 1200px, 10100009 - Discrete Supply Options - Gallery - 1200px, 10100010 - Discrete Supply Cover - Gallery - 1200px. Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. EAR FILLERS HiFi Pig Playlists on Qobuz, Transatlantic Dispatches: A New World Disorder, Astell&Kern Launch Three New Products At High End Munich 2022. I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. Not a bad idea Snoop! Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price. You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. The Dave is VERY lovely on PCM, and pretty decent on DSD, but DSD is not its raison d'etre. I can leave my hand on it as long as I want to. So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? I called the distributor and we went through everything again. It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! Mola Mola is another well built great sounding The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. Good points by all. This one has similar sound signature to MSB Premier But it is half notch below MSB Premier on dynamics, details, soundstage. as my Select II sits it would list for $116,450.