14c28n steel vs d2 14c28n steel vs d2

This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). and corrosion resistance than the 420HC steel. Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. I would love to see a Tungsten-Carbide blade (like Sandrin is using) and how it compares for Edge Retention, Toughness and Corrosion Resistance especially how it compares to s90v. High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. Not impractical fantasy knives, but these two knives that have a col look to them. D2 is a high carbon, high chromium die steel and is the highest carbon alloy tool and die steel typically used in knife making. Therefore I will be showing the ratings of the steels graphically in terms of toughness-edge retention balance, where steels that are high and to the right have the best combination, and you choose the steel based on the level of toughness or edge retention necessary for the knife. [Steel Knife Review], Best survival knife sword: 5160 steel Review, What is VG 10 pocket knife? Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. Are you okay with that? However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. Nitro V is also significantly cheaper than many other steels with this level of performance. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. imo o lot depends on how the blade is sharpened. The majority of knives target 63 Rc or below so this limitation of stainless steels does not always come into play but can be an important factor for certain knives targeting high performance and thin edges. It has high levels of chromium and carbon, making it extremely resistant to corrosion. Sorry about the misinformation. Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? Top quality steel yields perfect toughness, edge retention, wear and corrosion resistance, an easy to sharpen, long lasting and durable everyday carry that will fast become a user favorite. But keep in mind that no steel is perfect for everything. Furthermore, because of its ultrahigh hardness, Maxamet is very prone to corrosion, probably worse than 1095. Its OK to be a steel snob, but keep in mind that you dont have to if you want a good knife. Then we could say, e.g. Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. It applies to both of course, hence why there isnt a separate label. As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. D2 steel knives, on the other hand, offer great edge retention and wear resistance, which are properties of tool steels.14C28ND2Toughness93.5Edge retention35Corrosion resistance8.54.5Ease of sharpeningEasyModerately Hard14C28N vs D2. That is an air-hardening- high carbon, high chromium tool steel. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. 1. Powder metallurgy steels with low vanadium content like CPM-1V and Z-Tuff/CD#1 have extremely high toughness. This steel is quite corrosion resistant and sharpens easily. Its soft, with very low carbon content. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. Carpenter produces this powder steel. I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. The solid lockup and decent blade design make these two knives well suited for camping. Recommendations are welcome, If you are cutting against metal I would maybe try K390 in a Spyderco or an S110V knife if you need stainless. If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? Sorry, most of my previous comment was borderline word salad. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. ), intended use will give you all the answers. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. Heat treatment refers to the heating and cooling steps employed to achieve your knifes proper balance of attributes. There was significant sharpness loss with 1095, almost none with 440A, and D2 was in between. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. A good quality knife must have sharpness, great edge retention, and a sturdy handle. Another very tough and highly wear-resistant steel grade is the D2. Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. Non-stainless steels can be heat treated to 66 Rc or even higher depending on the particular steel. I feel like it sharpens as easy as D2. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. Damascus or pattern welded steel is a result of combining two steels together. In many cases the cost of working with the steel for the knife companies is more significant than the cost of the steel itself. You cant look at only the chromium content of the steel to know the level of corrosion resistance. Why do you give a coin with a knife as a gift? HA! In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. The following are less common steels, but theyre definitely worth tracking down. The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. I have two quick questions, Opinel Number 9 in carbon steel, and a Cold Steel Tanto Lite in their stainless steel. Goes to show that science not marketing or conjecture is what determines a good steel, 51shitty? Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. Ive not seen these used on non-kitchen knives, though, and it seems that if they had real utility they would be used in other knives as well although perhaps on the thinner edges of kitchen knives they are more effective than they would be elsewhere? I havent tested Sleipner yet. The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. A Japanese powder steel, ZDP-189 is essentially the polar opposite of 3V its uber-hard instead of uber-tough. Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. Below shows charts summarizing tests of different steels for the major categories discussed so far, low alloy steels, high alloy non-stainless steels, and stainless steels. Here is the article by Larrin on 48 steels. Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. D2 is another medium-range tool steel. In reality hardly difference. how much more can you bend/pry with it? That mixture has one goal in mind: making a great steel for people worried about rust and corrosion. Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. great work, larrin. Toughness is a measure of how much resistance a steel has to fracturing. Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. Importing steel from Europe to the USA, or vice versa, generally increases the cost. Steels with only vanadium carbides have the best balance of properties because the hardness of carbide matters for edge retention but doesnt for toughness. I guess that was before I started reading. There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. Vanadium carbides are among the hardest that form in steel, and chromium carbides are in between iron carbide and vanadium carbide. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? AEB-L This is the steel used in Swiss Army knives and is excellent for beginner sharpeners. Im looking forward to seeing if it does as well in full production. D2 is a tool steel used in industrial settings. I also added a few more steels in this study. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. Liquid steel is sprayed through a tiny nozzle, solidifying into a powder. The ratings in this article rate ease of sharpening primarily based on wear resistance, but if a knife is difficult to sharpen, there may be other factors in play. Any thoughts how Sleipner might fare in the ratings? This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and can't go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. How would n680 compare to m690? But Ive found it lacking in hardness, even when compared to cheaper steels like AUS-8. This grade can be treated cryogenically to improve edge retention. However, to choose the best knife for you must consider all the properties, including toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. But if you want to know what the coolest blade material is, for my money, SM100is it. S90V Both steel types don't chip easily, but 14c28n steel is easier to sharpen. D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. I wont go into detail about those here. Ive found S35VN less chippy even at the same hardness. This makes it a great choice if you don't have . 14c28n has less carbon and chromium as compared to 9Cr steel. The Sandvik 14C28N has a very thin and sharp blade that is perfect for slicing through things. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. Steel ratings are not about ranking steels in terms of what is better than another, but understanding the different balances such as toughness vs edge retention. The steel is similar to Sandviks 13C26. For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. For instance, if a 35 edge in 1095 steel at 58 Rc provides appropriate toughness for planing hardwood, what edge angle in, say, AEB-L at 62 Rc might give us a comparable effective toughness? However, high wear resistance means that abrasives are used up more rapidly, more careful grinding is necessary to avoid overheating, finishing and polishing is much more time consuming, etc. 14C28N steel holds good hardness. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. 14C28N steel is not very hard steel which makes it easier to sharpen. You can read about my CATRA edge retention testing in this article. Each test is done with 3 or more specimens to get a good average. Its a very hard steel and is exceptionally difficult to sharpen. 14C28N knives offer better toughness than D2 knives. Monday-Friday The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. Other factors include how thick your edge is, how dull your knife was at the start, the nature of the heat treatment, and what youre using to sharpen your knife. However, it falls behind the Bohler steel in corrosion resistance. Theres still a lot of misinformation being pushed by influencers especially in knife steel rankings. As of November 2020, this is Spyderco-exclusive steel. Take a look at this edge retention test. Therefore, ensure to wash and dry your knives after use to keep the rust away. . Note:Dont bother with anything less than 8Cr in this series. nevertheles its importand to keep in mind what exactly is going on there (abrasive plastic media, loss of most of cutting ability during the first few strokes etc.). MagnaCut has the lowest chromium of any of the below steels but all of its chromium is in solution (no chromium carbide) and the fact that it has no chromium carbide also gives it the maximum level of corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. But in use, Ive found nothing that withstands the abuse that 3V can take. This is a powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Read about my tests in this article. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. CPM 154 While quite soft, the metal cuts even when it seems dull because, at the microscopic level, it has a roughness that performs much like a serration. In many cases, the D2 edge sharpness may last a bit longer. Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. For more information see our. On the other hand, in d2 air-hardness steel, you cant differentially temper the blade-like other high carbon steel because the steel can also be challenging to sharpen. Chris Reeves version, which is about two points less hard than others, is quite good. 14C28N Hi there, So, it is quite harder than most other steel variants and retains its edge sharp for a long period. Powder metallurgy is a technology designed to maintain a small carbide size. While some are into that type of thing, if youre familiar with a specific steel and want to compare it with another, you should definitely click on that button below. I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. I have a question about the chart 1. I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. But to learn more about these and other attributes, read our related outdoor knife buyers guide. It also improves edge retention and strength. In nitrogen steels, nitrogen is used as the iron-hardener instead of carbon, thus limiting the possibility of rusting. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. So the major tradeoff is in how much carbide you want in the steel for edge retention without dropping toughness too much for the intended knife and user. These steels favor edge retention over all else. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. 14C28N VS Steel. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. The steel is an air-hardness tool steel that is considered semi-stainless because of its high chromium content. Toughness 3, Edge Ret 8, Cor Res 4? The knife does dull faster. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. D2. Austenitizing is the process where the steel is heated to high temperature prior to quenching (rapid cooling) to harden the steel. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Oh, thats great, thanks. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. Several factors arent related to the steel you choose but seriously affect the nature of your knifes performance. But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. This is a nitrogen steel that is extremely corrosion-resistant so much so that its used in knives designed to go in salt water, among the most difficult conditions knives are used in. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. 14c28n vs. AUS-8 Steel Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. Among Vancron SuperClean, Agomi #1 and Shirogami #1, Which one tends to have finer grain size and Sharper edge? But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. Rex 45 Short of purposeful abuse, its all but impossible to chip an edge on an INFI blade. Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. The both blade are equally wear resistant. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. Type 8Cr, the more common formulation, is worse than AUS-8: a little more prone to corrosion and not quite as hard. Also, what kind of steel is used for utility knives? The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. Knife steel nerds have a great write up on 14c28n nik_was 2 yr. ago The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. Using controlled furnace heat treating resulted in toughness around 23-28 ft-lbs at 61-62 Rc, while the knifemaker heat treated specimens were 7 ft-lbs or below. Marco, BSc Chem. Read more about how it works here. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). Sandvik 14C28N steel offers excellent corrosion resistance, exceptional toughness, good edge retention, and is easier to sharpen. On the flip side D2 steel is much harder than other steels in this category such as 154CM or ATS-34 and as a result holds its edge a little better. High wear resistance is not particularly necessary when only performing chopping, and its good ease in sharpening helps when having to restore the edges. Its an update of its 12C27 and 13C26 steels, which were developed for use in shaving razors. And for high toughness you want little or no carbide. A cryo treatment and close temperature control is necessary to achieve those hardness levels. Very obtuse edges resist chipping better but dont hold their edge as long and dont cut as well. It wont hang long with high-end powder metal steels(a method of making steel using ultra-pure micrograins of steel that are heated and pressed together). That provides 14% Chromium and offers excellent corrosion resistance. BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. There are a lot of different types of steel out there . 14c28n vs D2 Steel. Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. The heat treatment techniques used by the manufacturer as well as the design of the blade itself play a huge role in the ultimate outcome of knife performance! Read more. rex 121 14C28N VS D2 The two sheets of steel are comparable in terms of toughness and corrosion resistance. Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. 1. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. This is good for ease in heat treating in large batches and for even cooling that greatly reduces warping and size changes. If youre looking for all all-around best knife steel, youd be hard-pressed to find one better than Bohler Uddeholm M390. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. Conventionally produced steels include AEB-L, A2, 52100, 12C27, 14C28N, and AUS-8/,8Cr13MoV. The table shows combinations of knife steel properties for different classes of steel. You said wood is not a particularly abrasive material and in absolute terms that is very true. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. European steel company Sandvik produces 14C28N, a non-powder metallurgy steel. It has excellent edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. I would suggest adding a second axis to the ratings charts that show the data values that the 0-10 ratings are based on (unnotched charpy impact energy, 1% saltwater , Total cards cut, etc.). However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. The ESEE had significant edge damage while the MagnaCut knife did not. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. Privacy Policy. Could you please compare it to Shirogami #1 and Agomi #1, I didnt find anything in terms of grain size ragarding thoese steels on the Internert. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. Deburring of edges often takes even longer than removing material to produce the edge. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart.